tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post7307242019362045853..comments2024-03-19T10:53:35.554+00:00Comments on Landed families of Britain and Ireland: (73) Aldersey of Aldersey HallNick Kingsleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-52793682903035240982020-01-09T20:20:11.625+00:002020-01-09T20:20:11.625+00:00Nick
In an attempt to resolve this one way or anot...Nick<br />In an attempt to resolve this one way or another, I have gone through the records again. The key evidence is in the PCC will of John Spurstow of Spurstow dated 14th February 1540. He left the following bequests:<br /><br />to Lytyll Aldersey a hayfer calf<br />to Master Warde of Bunbury and John Aldersey the younger my stonyd horse betwyxt them and if John have not half the horse then I will that he have the Welshe geldinge<br />to cousin John Aldersey the elder one of my marys whyche he will chuse<br /><br />The four executors included Henry Aldersey of Chester, John Aldersey the elder and John Aldersey the younger.<br /><br />So John Aldersey senior was alive in 1540, but....why have both the landowning neighbour and his son and heir as executors? There is a hint that one was chosen out of respect and the other out of necessity. The bequests are also unusual. John junior was in effect being challenged to step up to the plate and cooperate with Master Warde or accept a lesser horse. John senior was being offered a mare which would usually offer a much easier ride, hinting that he was not up to anything more demanding. I then found the following:-<br /><br />Sep 10 1524 John Aldersey writ of exemption from serving on juries etc.<br /><br />Such a writ of exemption was usually given to the elderly and infirm so that they could avoid tasks which were beyond their ability. John Aldersey senior was not old, so he must have been infirm for another reason. Presumably his condition was considered so severe by 1528 that he had to make a will whilst he still could. The memorandum of 1534 was exactly that, a reminder to all of the possessions that a brother held in trust. John senior was still alive in 1540, but not considered capable without the support of his son John junior, who had evidently come of age by then. John senior may well have lived on till 1554 or thereabouts. I think this explains it.<br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-42306088150926765912020-01-04T06:58:14.661+00:002020-01-04T06:58:14.661+00:00Having read the will and taken into account your o...Having read the will and taken into account your other points I have entered a caveat on the date of death in my text above. However, I have noticed that Cheshire Archives ZCR 469/271, which I take to be the will transcribed by the RSLC, is stated in their catalogue to be endorsed "probate, 17 Nov. 1554". Wills were normally proved a few weeks after death, and although one does encounter instances where probate was delayed for years they are normally the wills of widows or young men who had little to leave. In this case, I suppose probate could have been delayed because the enfeoffment gave his brothers all the powers they needed, but I still find it surprising that probate should have been delayed for twenty or even twenty-six years. I have therefore felt it not possible to dismiss the 1554 date entirely.Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-65347923963771163782020-01-04T06:19:45.570+00:002020-01-04T06:19:45.570+00:00Thank you for these suggestions, which I shall fol...Thank you for these suggestions, which I shall follow up.<br />Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-55469657411804687422020-01-03T21:30:13.359+00:002020-01-03T21:30:13.359+00:00Nick, second attempt at reply
Firstly, I think I n...Nick, second attempt at reply<br />Firstly, I think I now know how the Cluttons acquired Chorleton Hall. I noticed that John Aldersey's father in law was Thomas Bird, how did I not spot this? From the Visitation of Cheshire of 1580 and the Pedigree of Bird of Clopton, Chorleton passed down through several generations to Thomas Bird, John Aldersey's father in law. It then must have passed down to Roger Clutton through marriage to Anne daughter of John Aldersey, as described by Burke in his 1840s Directory. This could have happened through gift from the Alderseys or Birds 'for her preferment', or through purchase by Roger (who was from a wealthy family of salt producers) as part of the marriage settlement - to the benefit of all. Now that I know what I am looking for I will return to Chester and look for the proof.<br /><br />I think you are right to be only moderately confident regarding the information from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. I can only see part of the entry for Thomas Aldersey due to access restrictions, but even that hardly inspires confidence. It seems to refer to Anne Bird of Colton near Chester, the only Coltons I can find are near Leeds and Stafford. The Pedigree of Bird of Clopton in the Visitation of Chester of 1580 states that Thomas Bird was of CLOPTON and by inference so was his daughter. I do not wish to speak ill of such a fine and useful publication as the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, but I have found that some modern publications occasionally use secondary sources without checking against the original - a failing that was not available to the transcribers of the 19th century.<br /><br />I suggest you look at the will of John Aldersey of Spurstow dated 1528, as transcribed from the original in the Aldersey Papers by JP Earwaker in 1896. To access it just type http://rslc.org.uk into the top navigation bar of your browser. This will take you to the RSLC home page. Select Publications from the menu bar, then click the link in 'A list of out of print publications....can be found here'. Scroll down through the publications to Volume 30 and select it. The will can then be found on page 66. 5 minutes well spent.<br /><br />Regarding Cheshire and the National Archives, there is a complication. Until 1547 Chester was a County Palatinate, ran its own affairs and kept its own records. These were held at Chester Castle until transferred to the Public Record Office in the mid 19th century. Helpfully, they were transcribed and published in Annual Reports by the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records. The 'Welsh' or Chester Circuit Inquisitions appear in the Thirtieth Annual Report and there is no IPM or writ for Dower to match the 1528 will, but that is to be expected. If there was a legitimate will then it is most unlikely that the Chester officials would have requested an IPM, they weren't exactly eager to create work, and the widow would have no grounds for a writ of Dower because of the holding in trust. I have checked the Court of Wards records which did seem to include Cheshire and there is nothing for the Alderseys around 1528 or 1554. I will recheck in case I have missed anything. The 'Welsh' records are viewable on line, with the easiest access possibly through the LDS Familysearch Research Wiki.<br /><br />If you want to maximise the accuracy of your blog it might be worth a quick look on line, certainly as regards the 1528 will, you may be surprised by what you find.<br />All the very best<br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-68451343040928292019-12-31T17:40:33.384+00:002019-12-31T17:40:33.384+00:00I would be moderately confident about the date as ...I would be moderately confident about the date as this comes from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography article on his son Thomas. His children would have been very young in 1528 or 1534 and the eldest son would not have come of age until 1541 or thereabouts. If he died before the heir came of age I would expect there to be records of the children's wardship in The National Archives, even if this was purchased by a close relative like their mother or uncle. Have you looked for anything like that?Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-52224015948533737692019-12-30T21:12:43.255+00:002019-12-30T21:12:43.255+00:00Thanks for trying anyway Nick. I will keep lookin...Thanks for trying anyway Nick. I will keep looking. I have now come across a deed involving Thomas Aldersey and John Aldersey senior of Horton & Ellen his wife dated 1544 - Horton is next to Chorleton Juxta Malpas (anything on them?). <br /><br />Regarding Aldersey, I have been looking at Record Society of Lancs & Ches vol 30 which has the will of John Aldersey of Aldersey and Spurstow dated 1528 in which he leaves his estates to brothers Rob Hugh & Ric and a brother in law Bird for benefit of wife & children. There is then a 1534 memorandem of land held by John Aldersey of Spurstow in Middle Aldersey where Robert A is present tennant (Dep Keeper of Pub Rec doc). It appears from this that John A had either died or become infirm around 1528 and in 1534 it was necessary to review his holdings possibly as his son and heir came of age. How sure are you of John A's death in 1554?<br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-91417065633549809572019-12-29T14:02:04.920+00:002019-12-29T14:02:04.920+00:00Chorlton Hall is in the parish of Malpas (Cheshire...Chorlton Hall is in the parish of Malpas (Cheshire), a few miles south of Aldersey. The John Aldersey of Chorlton referred to may not be directly connected to the Alderseys of Aldersey: he could just be a man whose ancestors came from Aldersey village and took the village name as his surname independently of the family described above. Having said that, it seems more likely that there was a connection, but it may lie several generations further back than I have traced the genealogy. You would probably need to look for surviving manorial records or title deeds for the Chorlton estate to have any chance of figuring this out. Sorry not to be more helpful.Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-2388765561103359472019-12-24T18:31:23.339+00:002019-12-24T18:31:23.339+00:00Nick
I have come across a problem that you might b...Nick<br />I have come across a problem that you might be able to help with. According to Burke's Directory of the Landed Gentry of 1847 Roger Clutton married Anne dau and heiress of John Aldersey of Chorleton. Roger Clutton of Chorleton was buried at Malpas on 16/11/1590. He was living at Chorleton in 1569 when mentioned in a bastardy baptism of a child of Elizabeth Sefton and Robert Yardsley. If Roger inherited Chorleton through Anne Aldersey she must have been born before 1550. Who was John Aldersey of Chorleton the father of Anne?<br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-83312689619842222142019-03-30T13:46:22.787+00:002019-03-30T13:46:22.787+00:00Mark,
I haven't come across the book you menti...Mark,<br />I haven't come across the book you mention, and my researches don't usually extend back much before 1500, so I am afraid I don't think I can help. The Cluttons are on my list for future research but I haven't done anything about them yet. Sorry not to be more help!<br />NickNick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-13769326047197358912019-03-30T10:07:06.408+00:002019-03-30T10:07:06.408+00:00Nick
I am writing a book about the Cluttons of Clu...Nick<br />I am writing a book about the Cluttons of Clutton, Cheshire, which is just south of Aldersey Hall. At the British Library they have a copy of The Book of Aldersey of Aldersey, which I assume that you are familiar with. My main interest here was John de Aldersey of Middle Aldersey, bailiff of Broxton hundred in 1398 and 1400 and died circa 1403, who married Cicely daughter of Hugh de Clutton. I noted the date of 1403 as coinciding with the rebellion of Henry Hotspur Percy and the battle of Shrewsbury, at which about 1500 rebels who had been recruited mainly from Cheshire were killed. I can see that all of this is at the very boundary of your work, but wondered if you had happened upon any further information. I am of course interested in anything you have on the Cluttons of Cheshire before 1700.<br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-1721510638696300112017-08-11T12:08:56.172+01:002017-08-11T12:08:56.172+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Hugh Alderseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-6748020885915168092016-08-12T16:46:01.137+01:002016-08-12T16:46:01.137+01:00[06-02-1722/23: Bond of Ralph Markham, Rector of T...[06-02-1722/23: Bond of Ralph Markham, Rector of Tarporley to Samuel Aldersey, Rector of Wigan, concerning provision for any children of his marriage with Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Aldersey, citizen of London, deceased.]: Hello. I can't recall where I got this from, and can't find the source at the moment. I think this Robert Aldersey is bn/bp:25-09-1642 m. Jane (?). This would make Elizabeth Aldersey and the Rev. Robert Aldersey first cousins. Bart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-61586410942590813722016-08-12T16:45:00.938+01:002016-08-12T16:45:00.938+01:00[06-02-1722/23: Bond of Ralph Markham, Rector of T...[06-02-1722/23: Bond of Ralph Markham, Rector of Tarporley to Samuel Aldersey, Rector of Wigan, concerning provision for any children of his marriage with Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Aldersey, citizen of London, deceased.]: Hello. I can't recall where I got this from, and can't find the source at the moment. I think this Robert Aldersey is bn/bp:25-09-1642 m. Jane (?). This would make Elizabeth Aldersey and the Rev. Robert Aldersey first cousins. Bart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-72920291271406056902016-06-22T02:49:01.905+01:002016-06-22T02:49:01.905+01:00Hugh Aldersey was an afficianado of the gypsy way ...Hugh Aldersey was an afficianado of the gypsy way of life - he travelled with wagons and bender tents and a tame Romany! His neighbour Lady Arthur Grosvenor was similarly afflicted. Are there any records, MSS, or diaries at Cheshire archives on this?Mike Greennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-51674070961613850412016-06-10T13:28:09.744+01:002016-06-10T13:28:09.744+01:00Dear Bart,
Thanks for getting in touch. The marri...Dear Bart,<br /><br />Thanks for getting in touch. The marriage of Ralph Markham and Eliz Aldersey took place at Wigan (Lancs), where Rev. Samuel Aldersey was rector and he conducted the service (see parish register). She is described as of Tarporley, spinster. The marriage bond gives no more information, but the signatories to the bond are Markham and Alban Aldersey. Samuel Aldersey and Henry Aldersey are witnesses. It seems fairly clear to me from this that Elizabeth was near kin to Rev. Samuel Aldersey and it seems likely that Alban Aldersey was her father. It is an unusual forename and I can find only one record of it on FindMyPast: the baptism of Alban, son of Thomas Aldersey at Bunbury (Cheshire) on 29 April 1657. I have not been able to find a baptism for an Elizabeth, daughter of Alban, however. There are four Elizabeth Aldersey baptisms in Cheshire at about the right time, but the fathers' names are Thomas (twice), Robert and Abraham.<br /><br />I will look into Wikitree at your prompting. The easy way to contact me, however, is to use the contact form on the sidebar of my website, which sends an email to me.<br /><br />With best wishes,<br /><br />Nick KingsleyNick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-21760416922059093342016-06-09T23:03:51.537+01:002016-06-09T23:03:51.537+01:00Elizabeth Aldersey m:1722 Rev. Ralph Markham (Tarp...Elizabeth Aldersey m:1722 Rev. Ralph Markham (Tarporley) son of Abraham Markham of Dublin, son of William Markham m:1651 Jane Loftus of Dublin: Elizabeth Aldersey: Do you know where/when she was born and her parents ?. Any connection to (Robert Aldersey bp:25-09-1642; salter of London) ?. It would be nice if you joined WikiTree where others can better connect to your information etc. Thanks Bart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-11456000610298140312015-03-14T06:14:15.557+00:002015-03-14T06:14:15.557+00:00hi iam david alfred aldersey , son of steven , gra...hi iam david alfred aldersey , son of steven , grandson of alfred , we live in liverpool i believe we have connection to the bloodline of the alderseys of cheshire , can anyone help with this connection ,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-13809681752474413772015-03-05T21:28:33.224+00:002015-03-05T21:28:33.224+00:00The single greatest concentration of the surname a...The single greatest concentration of the surname at the time of the 1881 census was in Cumbria but I have not established any connection with the Cheshire gentry family.Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-13712617045661524792015-03-05T19:50:09.780+00:002015-03-05T19:50:09.780+00:00I'm from the Aldersey in Cumbria how or where ...I'm from the Aldersey in Cumbria how or where do we fit into Cheshire<br /><br />Thanks Nik<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02089430258971422278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-74043537470522760322014-02-25T22:25:50.386+00:002014-02-25T22:25:50.386+00:00Thank you for spotting the error. I have made the ...Thank you for spotting the error. I have made the change.Nick Kingsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03588322361791532910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-37712181461456088672014-02-25T21:51:49.344+00:002014-02-25T21:51:49.344+00:00A correction is needed within the entry for Ralph ...A correction is needed within the entry for Ralph Aldersey. (1.1) Michael Aldersey )B1928) did marry my sister Sybella Helen but they lived near Keith, South Australia, not South AfricaRobert s C McNeile McCormicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-704095971276575721.post-72154603072403705842014-02-19T22:37:13.645+00:002014-02-19T22:37:13.645+00:00i was from aldersey,top lodge .i left in 1984,alwa...i was from aldersey,top lodge .i left in 1984,always rember the good days playing where the hall stood,fishing in the village club pool opp the manor.regards andrew jones.my mothers side the duttond worked on the estate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com